Imagination

[Pebble 2]

sometimes people just have bad ideas

[Dove 27]

2 hours ago, SalineSeas said:

If I can be honest, I fail to understand the point of this paragraph. To me, you seem to simply be stating the obvious: that interactions between others is a special, and that each interaction is a story in itself. That's great and all, but this is entirely your opinion, if I may be honest.

That's the point. This is a topic encouraging opinions and other views.

2 hours ago, SalineSeas said:

This isn't some sort of critical piece of evidence that would point towards random interaction, regardless of characters, being a good thing, this is just an opinion piece and brings nothing but your own words to the discussion. Now, that'd usually be fine, but you're trying to argue that all RP is good RP, and that people shouldn't be judged so harshly for their choice of RP. In short, personal thoughts don't cut it in this argument, as flowery and positive as they may be, so your opening statement here simply seems unreasonable through a critical lens.

 

Why? And furthermore, says who? Creating topics like these is the point of these personal thoughts and one's own words.

I think you are looking into this waaay too deeply. We're on a forums board of a private WoW server where players create their own characters. As far as I recall, whenever I was given assignments and asked to write an essay at Uni, I was allowed to speak my 'opinion' ONLY if it was backed up by authoritative sources, while leaving my own thoughts out of it. We're not at Uni here. We don't need any solid "evidence" or "authoritative sources" in order to express our beliefs, because, after all, we are part of the roleplay itself and the roleplayers are the community, while the characters are the players' own creation. 

You don't need a 'critical piece of evidence' to argue how this random interaction is a good thing. You simply need to argue WHY you would -think- that way, because you are part of this community. 

Also, how was the "I believe it's a strong connection" the dead giveaway to that paragraph (and the rest) being her opinion? For me, the dead giveaway would've been in the very first words at the very beginning of the topic, which clearly states, " I don't believe this will be a very popular opinion".

[Traius 41]

2 hours ago, Pebble said:

sometimes people just have bad ideas

 

[alexandra 31]

4 hours ago, SalineSeas said:

 

 

"I believe, as we've all been given the gift of a fresh start on this server, we should keep that in mind. There is a person behind the computer, and any kind of imagination should never be put down."

I know I shouldn't say this, but this really seems like self-projection. I won't go into details, again, but if you're going to write a post about a topic, please, remain objective and attempt to keep your own views out of it. Topics, debates, arguments, as soon as someone brings themselves into it, it devolves into a terrible competition of ego-measurement and victim complexes. If you want topics to remain on-track in the future, keep in mind that whenever you mention yourself  you put yourself at risk of people jabbing you for doing so.

I said that because Azarchius and many of the admins have said it too. It's nothing about ego, or being a victim. I think you are sadly misinformed and the entire point of this post was to bring others view into it. A healthy discussion. If you'd look back at the other comments they have all been thoughtful and respectful, yours is the only one not being so. I respect your thoughts as I do to anyone. I will mention myself, in anyway I like, my own experiences effect my views I was simply explaining them and if people 'jab' at me for doing that, then so be it. Lord knows it won't be the first time it's happened. 

[Traius 41]

that felt like someone playing the victim card

[SalineSeas 6]

@Dove Let's go through this piece by piece again, shall we?

"That's the point. This is a topic encouraging opinions and other views."

You're making it sound like topics and discussions are meant to be otherwise. I stated that I believed that her point was heavily influenced by her own opinion, which isn't exactly the greatest thing when you're trying to make a factious point, which this topic was indeed attempting to do (the point being that 'bullying people isn't OK'). I can understand why someone would use themselves as an example, or suggest to their own past strife, but it makes the discussion awfully specific, rather than addressing the actual problem which is the fact that this issue is so wide-spread. If she wanted to make it specific, then leaving mentions of herself, or her opinion, out of the original post would've helped. Again, I'm not faulting her for it, I'm simply saying it doesn't help.

 

"Why? And furthermore, says who? Creating topics like these is the point of these personal thoughts and one's own words."

Katie wanted to present an idea. Presenting ideas is fine, and doing so in one's own words is expected. But again, jamming yourself into something isn't the way to do that.

 

"I think you are looking into this waaay too deeply. We're on a forums board of a private WoW server where players create their own characters. As far as I recall, whenever I was given assignments and asked to write an essay at Uni, I was allowed to speak my 'opinion' ONLY if it was backed up by authoritative sources, while leaving my own thoughts out of it. We're not at Uni here. We don't need any solid "evidence" or "authoritative sources" in order to express our beliefs, because, after all, we are part of the roleplay itself and the roleplayers are the community, while the characters are the players' own creation."

I'm not expecting Katie to bring a thesis to the table. I'm expecting a certain amount of impartial writing when she's attempting to make a point, something I would expect from anyone. Understand that I agree with her point, and that my main gripe is that her topic focuses more-so on mentions of herself and community, rather than presenting unbiased examples, or at least some attempt at a solution other than 'ignore them'.

 

"You don't need a 'critical piece of evidence' to argue how this random interaction is a good thing. You simply need to argue WHY you would -think- that way, because you are part of this community."

So, being critical is irrelevant, then? I just need to throw my opinion out there, and then wait for the fish to bite? No. Personally, I don't expect that level of laziness from myself, and while I personally couldn't care less about about how others present themselves, I try to make sure that I'm concise and clear about my points, whether they be facts or simple opinions. Additionally, if I'm arguing about something, I'm definitely going to bring some solid evidence to the table, otherwise I'd risk making myself look like an absolute plonker. In short, I want to be able to provide reason behind my thought, for the betterment of the community I partake in. And again, I do not expect the same level of thought from others for various reasons I won't go in-depth about here.

 

"Also, how was the "I believe it's a strong connection" the dead giveaway to that paragraph (and the rest) being her opinion? For me, the dead giveaway would've been in the very first words at the very beginning of the topic, which clearly states, "I don't believe this will be a very popular opinion"."

And yes, you're correct. The post does indeed start off with her stating quite clearly that she doesn't believe her post will be very popular. However, that is an actual opinion rather than attempting to describe her logical thought as an opinion itself. To discuss this would be extremely pedantic, so I'll move on.

 

@Katiecakes Now to address your points, split into three parts.

"I said that because Azarchius and many of the admins have said it too. It's nothing about ego, or being a victim. I think you are sadly misinformed and the entire point of this post was to bring others view into it. A healthy discussion."

If you say that you're doing this out of genuine goodwill, then I'll accept that, and yes, the point of this post is to bring others views into this debate, as is such for any debate in the world. However, I'm afraid I can't accept your statement of me being 'misinformed', as I'm fairly sure I understand this topic fairly well, and that I am correct in stating that you have used examples of yourself, and have inserted your own opinions throughout your original post. Is that a crime? No. Is it a bad way to write an impartial piece about the issues that occur within the roleplaying community? Yes.

 

"If you'd look back at the other comments they have all been thoughtful and respectful, yours is the only one not being so. I respect your thoughts as I do to anyone."

Yet here you are, attempting to point a finger at me as if I'm a witch who's poisoned the water well. I understand what I've said may seem harsh, but please understand that I mean no harm nor disrespect. I only ask that you too treat me with the same level of respect, so that this discussion can remain as friendly as possible.

 

"I will mention myself, in anyway I like, my own experiences effect my views I was simply explaining them and if people 'jab' at me for doing that, then so be it. Lord knows it won't be the first time it's happened."

What I've said to you isn't a command, nor an imperative. If you choose to disregard it, then more power to you, as it's completely within your right to do so. However, my point stands: impartiality is critical when attempting to critique a community, otherwise you run the risk of seeming as if you're simply stating your own personal gripes in an attempt to lash out at others who have treated you poorly. Repeating a cycle, regardless of individual(s) or situation, is unhealthy for everyone involved, and please understand that I am quite sincere when I say that I believe that everyone deserves a certain level of respect, happiness and safety, no matter where they are. However, if one is to simply repeat the same actions over and over, history is doomed to repeat itself.

 

If either of you wish to respond, feel free to do so, though I am sure that you do not wish for anymore of the critique I have given. If that is the case, I'll bow out, and let others speak their own mind.

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[alexandra 31]

@SalineSeas I do see your point, I hope mine came across too. My main intention in this thread was to share my thoughts and hopefully inspire the server to me a more imaginative place

[Whimsy 13]

im gonna put this simply as hell without reading the massive wave of garbage that has ensued thus far.

 

imagination, individuality in the character creation progress, unique ideas = good

 

being unique for the sake of being unique, being purposely over the top, not rping believable characters = bad

[Norshar 50]

I have no issue with people having their own opinions on other characters, note everyone agrees with the exotic background/occupation of a toon due to them most likely following a designated template of canon. But, at the same time I notice a lot of people give their opinions when the subjected person doesn't even ask. I got into this dicussion before, I'll just state my claim. 

 

I don't understand how people preach about roleplaying being a cooperative experience then defile the very grounds of cooperation itself by whispering someone and calling them cancer, because they're an abstract role that makes them bad instantly. Which is like saying ' because you like punk music you're an idiot '. It's a retarded idelology, it's immature, and only promotes negative assortments of influence. Nothing positive comes out of something with negative intent. Also, no one should be bullied for an exotic role. That's harrassment and isn't allowed. Harassment is intimidation, which is what these people do. Firing off at you in the chat box to make you feel bad for your abstract role and attempt make you change it, that shouldn't be a thing and if you are someone who spends their time doing it;you're pathetic.

 

Overall, just worry about yourself. It's not your duty to worry about other people, keep your opinions to yourself and if you disagree with someone then avoid them. It's not hard, it really isn't. If you can't do that, then indulge in the practice of self-control and perhaps get some fresh air.

I seen someone talking about a hornets nest, if these types of hornets are on the server. I got my aerosol cans ready.

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Norshar

[ArvickCorpsebane 65]

Alright. Hi everyone in this thread whose posts I did not bother reading.

At any rate, I think this is a really important issue in the roleplaying community. Not in the way you are trying to convey, per se. I understand that you would be glad if everyone dropped arguing about things like half-undead and holy dreadlords because some people roleplay those things. But as a matter of fact, they won't. Why? - Because they do not care. They won't care about the fact you are making this threat, they will not adapt their toxic behavior because some people are trying to be decent on the internet. And why exactly they don't care? - Anonymity. Whatever you say here, the worst repercussion will be getting banned. Not such a big deal in the bigger picture. People here can and will be as vile as possible because that's simply in our nature. They don't feel the need to repress their opinions or formulate them in a way that's not insulting to other people. After all, you won't lose your job for shit-talking someone online on a private RP server.

While the idea of live and let live is something I would adore to see, I know 100% that it won't happen. So long as people have things to bitch about, they will. Regardless of that, I'm really glad there are also people who try to remain decent online.

[Beira 13]

I certainly don't condone attacking a person for whatever character concept they may drum up, but most often the only ridicule I find within RP communities is in regards to Warcraft canon RP and how well folks stay within the lines. Most characters are mocked because it seems evident that the person behind the character is not fully aware of the majority of the lore's various facets, and considering how sparse Warcraft lore is in comparison to many other fantasy settings it does come across as a bit inane for someone not to be up-to-date with the lore. And generally when making a character to RP, one should read up on all the relevant information regarding the concept. With WoWpedia, one doesn't even need to play the game to actually know the lore; even those who play the game may be unaware of the lore, either due to not paying attention or the simple fact that Blizz spends more effort in detailing ongoing story content through concurrent novels, comic, manga, etc. than they do through in-game quests (which are often used for bad pop culture references and fart jokes).

However, in regards to many minor details which many may overlook due to those details being a brief mention in some ambiguous quest of no real significance or an external medium of written content, this can cause some folks to take those little tidbits to heart and hold it against others to abide by; on the other hand, you may have RPers who emphasize those little footnotes and everyone else laughs at them because either they as a whole may be unaware of it and find it erroneous or they simply think it a superficial fact that shouldn't be paid much mind.

You also have many players who may try to avoid RPing what they think is a "stereotype" and want to break the mold, but in truth are merely avoiding an archetype and are joining in on cliche counter-culture stereotypes themselves; e.g. night elf engineers who are "young" (likely still a few decades or centuries old) and "more open-minded" to technology. This is often seen as lazy when they could easily take an archetype and try to build upon it in a consistent manner to revitalize an age-old trope or to showcase it in a different light; e.g. a night elf druid who views pacifism and vegetarianism/veganism as a moot point as many beasts (and some plants) kill and eat meat and nature itself is very chaotic and destructive by default, thus avoiding the typical "hippie" druid concept to bring to light the true essence of nature beyond even Blizz's contradicting assertions of nature being harmonious and tranquil.

Other times, a character may give the impression that the player is irreverent, defeating the whole point of putting time aside to play pretend on a private server rather than devote that time to something else that's actually constructive, which may come across as insulting to those who do believe in putting forth a decent amount of effort. Such characters may be blatant wish fulfillment or simply edgelords who are rather bland and overexaggerated in some aspects, some may just seem goofy and careless of the setting altogether; especially when you consider how many in an RP community are viciously defensive of the source material, even if the source material itself is bad in many areas. Hell, even edgelords get annoyed with other edgelords, and call each other out for it. If you wanna see it in action, make a panda (or any other non-elf race, pandas just get the point across more easily) and dress them up like a demon hunter, then hang around in the OoC area, don't even RP it; to any sentient person with a functioning brainstem, this would be mildly amusing, but sadly most folks in RP communities (this one included) are not so sane and will proceed to viciously insult you even though it is simply a social experiment and they obviously fell for it. It literally has already happened on this server, I saw it go down. Demon hunters, at their very core, are a pretty terrible concept, as they capitalize on bad anime cliches, but that's what most kids (who make up the bulk of RP communities) eat up and adore despite the obviously bad and cringy nature of it; mocking that concept sets them off like rabid chihuahuas.

On that note, some folks may just attack others for RPing something within the story they personally don't like; whether it's a particular race or class (playable or RPG-based), maybe one of the two main factions or even one of the NPC neutral or enemy factions, or perhaps a more ambiguous concept from the lore. While plenty of folks may adamantly defend Warcraft as a good story, there's likely many aspects of its story that they truly loathe and they only care to play out the small bits here and there they do actually like, thus prompting them to only care for those RPing something in line with their own preferences, and cutting down anyone RPing something they don't like. Not to mention the shifting nature of Warcraft's story - the constant inconsistencies, plot holes, contradictions and retcons - will potentially ruin certain concepts in lore that may have previously been enjoyed. Recently with the 7.3 content and the emphasis being placed on the Army of the Light, lightwielding characters like holy priests and paladins, are seemingly becoming overstated in the story, as the Light is now being attributed as having a more vast array of abilities which might correlate with other classes, such as "light portals/teleporting" and the like; the Light was originally given restrictions in contrast to other powers, like Fel or Void, and suddenly now it can overwhelm those very forces with ease.

And there's plenty of other reasons I could list. The sad fact is, there's lots of excuses for people to criticize and cut each other down, you can't avoid it. And honestly, Warcraft is the antithesis of a watertight story; it has plotholes so big not even draenei could fly a city-sized dimensional spaceship through it and never come close to crashing into something. So for those who wish to RP within it, it's a massive challenge trying to tie up all those glaring loose ends to keep the facts straight, because as time goes on, there's less and less concrete "facts" in how any of the fiction works. This can cause some folks to adhere to older lore logic that may have been outdated, or simply shrug and say "anything goes" at this point.
Quite literally, the biggest issue in RPing within Warcraft's setting is simply Warcraft's setting. Blizz's writers have no care for tact and nuance, allowing everything to be driven by the "Rule of Cool", despite much of it not actually being cool, it's all simply flashy light shows for every minor action and phallically symbolic weaponry and armor.