A letter of concern

[Matt 37]

Hey guys, I didn't really want to make this post but I feel at this point it has become pertinent. Not long ago I made a post regarding the need to be more transparent in regards to server development, whilst that was somewhat met, it was not the news that we as a community wanted to hear. To be more specific, we as a community have pretty well been left in the dark regarding the release of any new content for the server, Every attempt to find out as to when the release or even an approximated date of the next content patch has simply been evaded or otherwise ignored, most GM officials don't even seem to know what's going on which is indeed worrying to me and I imagine to others as well. I understand that the server is in an "Open Beta" but that as an excuse for some of the issues regarding functionality can only be stretched so far, it's already October and there still isn't any way to adjust client side render distance, a HUGE problem for people with weaker machines, people don't have means to view active phases, Custom content has been removed from the server in favour of making it public content, so on and so forth. The biggest quarrel that I have with what's essentially being done here and I have expressed this to a multitude of people is that, things are being taken out with no adequate substitute being put in it's place. For example, in the early days of release, we had a pseudo form of phase viewer. Albeit it was inaccurate with it's displayed totals of people in the phase, it was still a means of viewing phases. Custom content, on this particular matter we had a multitude of people creating new content for the server which for many was a major reason for wanting to join Epsilon in the first place. It's to my understanding that a new method of content sharing is currently being implemented that would allow for clients to be forcefully integrated with approved user patches. I like the idea of where this plan is going, however like the first, you are taking away content without having a proper substitute in it's place, removing patches from the server. Previously things were just fine as they were, people that did not want patches would simply not download them and those who wanted them would download them, simple as that, taking away the patches and forcing people to wait for the next update has more less shot you in the foot. The current state of Epsilon is best comparable to that of RPH but with MUCH LESS, so far things that have set us apart from them have more or less been taken away and more and more people I am finding are making their way over to greener pastures. To summarize, stop being secretive with the community, it's one thing to hold back information, however when it's gotten to the point where an extended period of time where no content or even as simple as a progress update has been given and you are taking away things as apposed to giving, it makes you look incompetent as developers. I don't want you all to read this and think of it as a stab because I and many of the other people that are still here want to see this community thrive and grow, however there needs to be some give from the development team. I hope this post gives you a little more insight to what is the problem with Epsilon and we can make progress towards putting us on the right track.

 

Sincerely,

 

-Matt

[Mithaniel 66]

While I do agree that there should be more info on how things are coming along patch-wise, it shouldn't be a big issue - i.e "letter of concern" worthy. If people are leaving over the lack of ability to make their own private patches, then they're not really the people that are worth catering to. Yes, the lack of speed isn't a good thing - as is the same vein of the quietness (besides the gossip corner doohah), but if people's stay here is hindered around the lack of Phase Manager/Cloaks/the ability to submit their content then they really shouldn't be on a private server. It's an ambitious undertaking - what these people are doing - and the patch-makers are also volunteers, so it's likely there isn't any real deadlines or anything.

On one hand, I agree with some of the topics brought up but I also don't think there's too much of a big deal to be made. I too want content - like the patches - but I suppose most others lack the patience. We also have to take into mind that a lot of it relies on Azarchius, who has a job and probably has some hurdles to get through besides that. If people want to return to RPH because they can't understand that and wait - and make what they can out of what we have now - then that's no great loss. If its bugs that are preventing some things, then that's fine. But content like hair, cloaks, and building recolors - those aren't essential to being on Epsilon. It's sort of like free DLC that just adds on but isn't essential.

idk, i'd be more worried over epsilon if critical bugs were not going fixed/being ignored over custom content being partially missing. Bear in mind, some of the work being done (Sadriel is redoing/fixing items, for example) is requiring time and patience. Jobs, hurdles, what have you - it'd be NICE to know but its not essential.

 

All in all, I understand - but the only thing that is a real concern is if its true about questions not being answered. I mean there was no real promised time frame of content.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Mithaniel

[Azarchius 212]

We are not being secretive; we simply do not know when additional content will arrive.

 

"Already October" means we're a little past the halfway point from release to December, our original release goal, and we already have far more than just half the features of other servers. Some things we have less, some quite obviously have way more. We are not withholding release date because we're evil; we don't have one. We are incapable of telling how long this person will take to do X, that person will take to do Y, and so on.

 

To those who are interested in what's going on in core development, they're always free to look at #dev-updates, where commits regarding NPC casting are clear. Naturally, I've given no announcements, as I am incapable of knowing when I myself will be done with it. We'll make an announcement when we're done with it. We've very recently introduced NPC auras as well.

 

We're working as hard as we can, but no, it is not possible to catch up in tech in three months. Regarding the flow of constant new features, it has been scaled back in order to focus on bugfixing and faciliating content, as well as fixing the many bugs that have been ignored in favor of critical features. The patch team was only rather recently formed, and the worfklow dynamic is still not clean and efficient. We have a lot of hands on deck all working to make Epsilon the best place there is.

[Matt 37]

@Mithaniel I'm getting the feeling you more or less skimmed through my letter as apposed to reading it fully, My post is not dedicated entirely to that of Custom Patches, albeit that's one section of it. I outline other major problems like Phase management and other client tools like Render distancing and summoning. @Azarchius I appreciate that you took the time to respond to my post, I understand that we are coming past the halfway point, but it still leaves people with outstanding questions, even if you don't have information to give make that noted with us, your consumers. 

10 minutes ago, Azarchius said:

"We are not withholding release date because we're evil"

In no way was I trying to paint you as such, the entire point of my post was to outline a few problems that are seemingly not being addressed. 

 

13 minutes ago, Azarchius said:

we don't have one. We are incapable of telling how long this person will take to do X, that person will take to do Y, and so on.

If that's the case, inform us, it leaves us with less to speculate on, it all comes back to what I was initially writing about, communication. 

 

44 minutes ago, Matt said:

things are being taken out with no adequate substitute being put in it's place.

I would still like to redirect your attention to this line as it's the underling point of my argument, regardless of how you explain it, this is always going to be a problem. 

[Mithaniel 66]

Yeah, I skimmed it. My bad - I focused on what I saw was relevent. I didn't seem to consider there were render distance issues or anything. /shrug

[Kyliel 2]

I totally agree that it feels like stuff was taken away with no substitute for no reason, namely custom patches. from what I remember it was said that they were removed from 7.2 to "get us used to how it'll be in 7.3" when clearly they weren't anywhere near ready to update to 7.3? I don't see the point in removing patches especially when there's been this much time since they were removed and nothing like mordred's cloaks has been added. Take your time with it, as much as you need to make the server as best as it can be, I'm not even asking for a timeframe because that's basically impossible with stuff like this and just risks people bitching about how you went past the promised date. just.. don't remove useful things for no reason I guess?

Feel free to correct me on why exactly patches were removed, that's just what I remember was said about it and I don't understand the bare basics of modding or anything like that. I just know you download the file and drop it in the other file and I can see cool armour now.

[Killaninja12 19]

i don't really believe the whole not being secretive thing, sorry

 

i guess the whole 'already having far more features than other servers' really draws in a big crowd at 30 people average and no roleplay, doesn't it?

there just isn't anything to get on for, and people are clearly leaving because of it. people are just rolling back over to rph and anytime someone logs on it's "lul wer rp no rp??"

making these matters worse, nobody wants to make any phases as of late because it feels like just a big waste. nobody is going to see their work, and it's very clear that with a lack of some sort of phase listing, they're just not getting any recognition and thus the whole server takes a big hit to rp. you'd clearly missed one of my jokes prior about warden as well az, which in a given sense was pretty funny.

 

i just think prioritization as a whole here is poor, and information is most definitely being kept thin as it is, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue

Edited October 16, 2017 by Killaninja12

[Witch 140]

Hi Matt,

Client-side modding will be impossible in patch 7.3. The decision to switch to a CDN server was a matter of whether we wanted to remove the ability to do so now or later. We try not to harp on this because we realize it was always going to be an unpopular decision; unfortunately, we do not have access to the World of Warcraft game engine, and we have no control over what Blizzard decides to do with their game. Modding has always been a workaround and now is no different. We will be one of the first servers to upgrade to patch 7.3, and we will likely be one a small handful with access to custom content in future expansions. We did not want patch 7.2 to become the new 3.3.5a because we are scared of the technological hurdles. Moving forward is essential to Epsilon.

Most of the time we will not announce decisions that most people would not find any value in, such as purchasing a new dedicated server or testing changes that are not ready to be published, but those who are looking for progress should tab into the #dev-updates channel on Discord. The Gossip Corner showcased only a fraction of what is being worked on and I do not think it would be fair to force developers to announce their projects in their infancy. I want us to showcase progress, you're right about that, and once our developers have come closer to the completion of their projects (some advanced programs are being worked on), you will likely see these in a future edition of the Gossip Corner.

Like Azarchius said, NPC auras were recently introduced. There is a list of things that we are working on daily. Render distance and more are all things we have heard about and want to push forward. The Gossip Corner should cover these exciting changes and more.

 

EDIT: You all might find this thread from the retail forums to be an interesting read. Modding isn't something we're changing because we want to. We have no choice.