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Graxton

[SUGGESTION] Give Me Dev

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How do I test this? Tbh Ain't no reason you had to go and close that dev client leak.


Discord: Garrett#8626

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Hhhhhhh, the choices being made regarding these things have been more than questionable. Look, without any ability for non-devs to test things to get added, you have to go to RPH or Paragon, which is already fucky, and immensely silly to me. You're forcing players to go and test things on other servers, and people that don't/can't play on them, are completely fucked. Why the limited creativity began in the first place is well and far beyond me, but hopefully we'll get heard on THIS matter.

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When I read the title I just came here to be a savage but then I read my husbands reply and just thought for a moment with my brain that barely exists and decided not to...

But anyways yea I think we should let people be able to test things on the server instead of needing to log RPH or Paragon to do that kinda shiet cuz ain’t nobody got time for that... Allow people to test stuff or just make everyone who wants to / has ss’s of their work to just go to someone with them all and be like “Sup hommie, make me a dev” 


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That thread containing the dev client was shut down because clientside loading is no longer supported. They cannot account for the bugs and client breaks you may encounter. We are, however, permitted to patch our own exe to allow testing, we just won't receive any help from the staff team in doing so. it's understandable. If you understand the risks involved and are willing to take them, thus losing any help from the staff team with errors, bugs, or glitches you may encounter, send me a dm on Discord and I can help you do this. Just ensure you're aware that you will not receive any support whatsoever.

EDIT: It's been a topic beaten to death, but also keep in mind that this only works until we update to 7.3. then it's gone for good.

Edited by ScharlakenRose

find me on discord @Lehvie#1473

or just find me on a certain other server.
have fun boys

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Whoop-de-doo, we've already heard all of this a thousand times over, Scarlet. 7.3, 7.3, 7.3, 7.3

When the hell is that ever going to come around, and why? You can just port things down, and Argus -really- isn't some beauty to behold just to lose a lot of creative power. Yes, I'm already familiar with it not being supported, again an already stupid decision on its own nonetheless. Anyone who creates their own content knows, or SHOULD know good and well that they're not responsible for any fuck-ups produced during your own meandering. The risks really aren't that bad, it's not as if though you're going to nuke your client, and things can be reversed, it isn't anywhere near the end of the world. I'd much rather a proper explanation and outlook for the damn community as a whole, as opposed to forcing any creative thinking to go elsewhere. One of the silliest things I've ever seen, honestly. We're here to enjoy ourselves, and I'd -love- to enjoy the content I have available while it lasts, and not deprive myself from it.

Edited by Killaninja12

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This is written before I go to bed, there might be typos and errors.  Keep this in mind.

 

The reason the Dev Exe was taken down, and the ID was changed so said Exe could no longer be used is it creates a number of potential issues.  I will list you them here;

 

One, it removes you from the CDN, which means when the issues our development team is currently having with CASC gets fixed which I can assure you -should- be very soon based off of what I have heard and been told --you will not be able to stream and receive updates as they come.  This is strictly for testing purposes, and with good reason.

Two, It can cause bugs and errors.  Whilst this isn't an issue, the further you modify (Or so I've been told) your client it will increase wait times, login screens, etc.  This will cause an issue and likely lead to people who got the Exe and thinking it was okay to complain about long waits.  This is a variable that isn't taken into account when thinking over solutions to issues because you shouldn't have it.  There is a reason even developers are alerted not to modify their primary exe.

Three, it has the potential to damage CASC and the server itself.  I have been made very aware after asking about it that it can in fact damage casc if you were to upload or modify the incorrect things.  Not to mention there is a possibility of you getting in deep shit regardless --because they can and will see a list of who is using the client.

Finally, there are a number of other issues with using a client that you shouldn't have, and it has been locked away from the public with good reason.  There are issues with CASC on the server I have overheard, and for the sake of respect of their wishes --I will not disclose.  These issues shouldn't be around for too terribly long, and it is unfortunate but is the issue.  Keep in mind, these issues wouldn't likely be a variable if the server launched on it's release date; December.  But we launched in the fall.  That's the price you pay, sadly.  Screaming about swords and the following won't increase the rate things are developed and will likely discourage people from developing further.  If it was a Developer EXE without error or issues, it would have been released for public use, and I would understand better why you'd want it.  And in this scenario, there was a lack of communication to some extent, because it appears as if the staff held out on you --which they didn't.  I don't disagree with what has been said about some staff members being inactive, and that communication is important.  But at the very same time, full and complete transparency isn't -needed-.  No other server has offered it, not RPH, not DivinityX, not Echilonde, and not Paragon.  My apologies for the inconvenience, and I am just as illinformed in a lot of ways as I am NOT an official.  I simply hope I could clear up what I have been made aware of on the matter.  Do enjoy your night now.  :)


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2 hours ago, Insomnia said:

This is written before I go to bed, there might be typos and errors.  Keep this in mind.

 

The reason the Dev Exe was taken down, and the ID was changed so said Exe could no longer be used is it creates a number of potential issues.  I will list you them here;

 

One, it removes you from the CDN, which means when the issues our development team is currently having with CASC gets fixed which I can assure you -should- be very soon based off of what I have heard and been told --you will not be able to stream and receive updates as they come.  This is strictly for testing purposes, and with good reason.

Two, It can cause bugs and errors.  Whilst this isn't an issue, the further you modify (Or so I've been told) your client it will increase wait times, login screens, etc.  This will cause an issue and likely lead to people who got the Exe and thinking it was okay to complain about long waits.  This is a variable that isn't taken into account when thinking over solutions to issues because you shouldn't have it.  There is a reason even developers are alerted not to modify their primary exe.

Three, it has the potential to damage CASC and the server itself.  I have been made very aware after asking about it that it can in fact damage casc if you were to upload or modify the incorrect things.  Not to mention there is a possibility of you getting in deep shit regardless --because they can and will see a list of who is using the client.

Finally, there are a number of other issues with using a client that you shouldn't have, and it has been locked away from the public with good reason.  There are issues with CASC on the server I have overheard, and for the sake of respect of their wishes --I will not disclose.  These issues shouldn't be around for too terribly long, and it is unfortunate but is the issue.  Keep in mind, these issues wouldn't likely be a variable if the server launched on it's release date; December.  But we launched in the fall.  That's the price you pay, sadly.  Screaming about swords and the following won't increase the rate things are developed and will likely discourage people from developing further.  If it was a Developer EXE without error or issues, it would have been released for public use, and I would understand better why you'd want it.  And in this scenario, there was a lack of communication to some extent, because it appears as if the staff held out on you --which they didn't.  I don't disagree with what has been said about some staff members being inactive, and that communication is important.  But at the very same time, full and complete transparency isn't -needed-.  No other server has offered it, not RPH, not DivinityX, not Echilonde, and not Paragon.  My apologies for the inconvenience, and I am just as illinformed in a lot of ways as I am NOT an official.  I simply hope I could clear up what I have been made aware of on the matter.  Do enjoy your night now.  :)

I dont even know fully how to code and I know that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works. You cant (or really shouldnt) be able to affect the server AT ALL. Cracked exe or not.

qGhiEIe.gif

Folks 'fixed' the exe real real fast. Like cracking DRM. This shouldnt be server DRM. I love me some internal patches but I cant approve of time spent to block it like Terry Crews unless there's actual real stuff goin on. It's silly to devote resources to that.

Also, doesnt it not remove you from the CDN? Not sure for certain.

Edited by DerpyDoo

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4 hours ago, DerpyDoo said:

I dont even know fully how to code and I know that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works. You cant (or really shouldnt) be able to affect the server AT ALL. Cracked exe or not.

qGhiEIe.gif

Folks 'fixed' the exe real real fast. Like cracking DRM. This shouldnt be server DRM. I love me some internal patches but I cant approve of time spent to block it like Terry Crews unless there's actual real stuff goin on. It's silly to devote resources to that.

Also, doesnt it not remove you from the CDN? Not sure for certain.

For the most part, that is how it works.  I'm not a developer or a GM however, so if you want a more cement statement go to one of them.  This is simply me trying to calm down what seems to be a wildfire in the past few days.


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10 hours ago, Insomnia said:

it removes you from the CDN

I can promise you this isn't the case. if it were, there would be no way to even connect to the server as it now requires CDN communication. I have an exe myself that allows for both.


find me on discord @Lehvie#1473

or just find me on a certain other server.
have fun boys

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The reason the dev.exe was disconnected was because it wasn't connected to the live-realm CDN.
It was connected to our private developer CDN instead. This is a serious leak and we had no choice but to shut down the developer CDN and put it someplace else--which means that the former dev client doesn't work anymore because it can't connect to its CDN.

This has nothing to do with it allowing local edits.
I've been informed that there is a new .exe that allows local changes that is also connected to Live-realm CDN.
Using this .exe will NOT get you banned. And we will NOT disconnect it or anything.

HOWEVER, using a local-edits enabled one and causing damage to your client is something that we will not actively help/support for/with, meaning you are doing this on your own accord.
In worst case scenario this may cause you to have to entirely re-download your client.
Alternatively, acquire a second client to use as a "Dev/Modding" client so that you don't loose your main client if above would happen.
If you want to edit the client yourselves, you are more than welcome to. These are instructions on how to deal with MD5 & SIG protection removal from the .exe: link

Just to clarify, using a cracked .exe to allow local changes/patches/custom stuff does NOT get you banned or in trouble.
We will simply not help you if you accidentally break your client due to it not being 100% compatible with the CDN streaming as far as we've seen/tested.

Hope that clears up the subject!
For any further questions don't hesitate to PMing me on either Discord(Xeslite#4934) or here, on the forum!

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1 hour ago, Xeslite said:

The reason the dev.exe was disconnected was because it wasn't connected to the live-realm CDN.
It was connected to our private developer CDN instead. This is a serious leak and we had no choice but to shut down the developer CDN and put it someplace else--which means that the former dev client doesn't work anymore because it can't connect to its CDN.

This has nothing to do with it allowing local edits.
I've been informed that there is a new .exe that allows local changes that is also connected to Live-realm CDN.
Using this .exe will NOT get you banned. And we will NOT disconnect it or anything.

HOWEVER, using a local-edits enabled one and causing damage to your client is something that we will not actively help/support for/with, meaning you are doing this on your own accord.
In worst case scenario this may cause you to have to entirely re-download your client.
Alternatively, acquire a second client to use as a "Dev/Modding" client so that you don't loose your main client if above would happen.
If you want to edit the client yourselves, you are more than welcome to. These are instructions on how to deal with MD5 & SIG protection removal from the .exe: link

Just to clarify, using a cracked .exe to allow local changes/patches/custom stuff does NOT get you banned or in trouble.
We will simply not help you if you accidentally break your client due to it not being 100% compatible with the CDN streaming as far as we've seen/tested.

Hope that clears up the subject!
For any further questions don't hesitate to PMing me on either Discord(Xeslite#4934) or here, on the forum!

Make me dev.


Discord: Garrett#8626

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2 hours ago, Graxton said:

Make me dev.

I wish you luck in becoming a developer!

However, it wouldn't fix the immediate problem the other players here face. Our modding sub-community has shriveled since the decision was made to switch to a CDN server. Most of my work is showcased here; I lost access to months' worth of work -- as a result I have barely modded on 7.2. Azshara Crater, tweaking Queen Azshara's dress to conform to the night elf model, re-UVing the models, beards, etc., almost everything I began has sat unfinished. My hairs were not finished, these were all works in progress until it became impossible to use them in-game.

The administration has been indecisive on this issue and there has not been a substantive discussion since the CDN server went live. Deramyr has said publicly before that players will not be punished for cracking the exe themselves. Other things have been said, albeit not publicly, but I would advise you not to get your hopes up on any sort of support coming out of the staff team. Unofficial modding has effectively been abandoned on this server.


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I typically would not post twice, but I feel this deserves its own post as it is a separate point:

As we move forward into 7.3, we should continue to use the CDN server to a bare minimum. Our CDN should be used to publish additions ONLY to the game files, e.g. building and water tiles. No edits should be published which overwrite existing files, such as character m2s.

The exe, which is connected to Epsilon's CDN and allows local changes, can be used for players to modify existing files in the client. This is how character edits, model edits, map edits, item edits, overcloaks, etc., can be used again.

Edited by Witch

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2 minutes ago, Witch said:

I typically would not post twice, but I feel this deserves its own post as it is a separate point:

In my opinion, as we move forward into 7.3, we should continue to use the CDN server to a bare minimum. The current developer exe is connected to our private CDN, as Xeslite has said. This CDN should be used to publish additions to the game files such as building and water tiles. No sort of character or model edits should be done from a server-side perspective.

The exe, which is connected to the CDN and allows local changes, can be used for players to modify other, existing files in the client. This is where character model edits can be used, or map edits (new maps can also be pushed live through the CDN now that we have the technology to port Noggit maps to the current Legion patch).

Why would we move to 7.3 at all when we could just port stuff down?

Edited by Graxton

Discord: Garrett#8626

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18 minutes ago, Graxton said:

Why would we move to 7.3 at all when we could just port stuff down?

Why wouldn't we? I realize what Azarchius believes to be true about 7.3, but it is inevitable Darknest or some other community will crack the launcher in time.

If anyone recalls, vanilla private servers were extremely difficult to connect to when they first came out. Today the process is seamless. Modding is not going anywhere any time soon, and it is important for us to continue to move forward as a server.

Edited by Witch

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Just now, Witch said:

 

Why wouldn't we? I realize what Azarchius believes about 7.3, but it is inevitable Darknest or other communities will crack the file in time.

If anyone recalls, vanilla private servers were extremely difficult to connect to. Today the process is seamless. Modding is not going anywhere any time soon, and it is important for us to continue to move forward as a server.

IMO there's not much really important coming out of 7.3. Maybe just items, which can be down ported and pushed through by the devs. I think we're fine where we're at, and as far as I understood it, 7.3 will fuck everything. Which I can only assume means what devs can push through server side too. It doesn't make much sense to me why we'd trade all of that for 7.3, unless that's not the case. Enlighten me if it's not.


Discord: Garrett#8626

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It is an issue the modding community will have to contend with regardless. Battle for Azeroth will have technical hurdles in the same vein that Cataclysm overhauled the ADT file structure or how Warlords of Draenor introduced the CASC file system. When WoD came out the modding community had absolutely no idea how to access or modify the client, and today we can stream directly to it in real time -- while you are playing the game no less!

7.3 will be cracked and so will 8.x and beyond. I do not understand the hesitation of the administration and some of the players; 7.2.5 will not become the new 3.3.5a simply because Blizzard has created new obstacles for us. If we could crack CASC and create the CDN, do you think 7.3 will hold the modding community back?


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3 minutes ago, Witch said:

It is an issue the modding community will have to contend with regardless. Battle for Azeroth will have technical hurdles in the same vein that Cataclysm overhauled the ADT file structure or how Warlords of Draenor introduced the CASC file system. When WoD came out the modding community had absolutely no idea how to access or modify the client, and today we can stream directly to it in real time -- while you are playing the game no less!

7.3 will be cracked and so will 8.x and beyond. I do not understand the hesitation of the administration and some of the players; 7.2.5 will not become the new 3.3.5a simply because Blizzard has created new obstacles for us. If we could crack CASC and create the CDN, do you think 7.3 will hold the modding community back?

I'm not saying this should be the new 3.3.5a. I'm just saying 7.3, the stuff that comes out of it is very niche. Only a handful of players may even RP on Argus. My guess is five at most - even if RP picks up. I don't think it's in our best interest for just 7.3. It would be worth a lot more imo to just wait for 8.0.

Edited by Graxton

Discord: Garrett#8626

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That remains to be seen. But yes, for the time being I think our best course of action is to stop acting stingy and give the players a modifiable client.

7.3 and 8.0 will happen in time. While we are waiting let's not inhibit players or their creativity.


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7.3 will not "fuck everything up." You will not feel a change other than having the new art and continent.

 

Worst case scenario we'll make the developer's realm that's on 7.2 open to public so that people can still test client side changes.


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