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Valrik

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Posts posted by Valrik

  2. Posted

    I like this topic's goal a lot. For too long have people had entirely different ideas on how far a gold will get you. To some, a gold piece will get you a small cottage, and silver/copper is used for day to day supplies. To others, a gold will get you a mug, and everything else is just pocket change

     

    It's a sad state.

  6. Posted · Edited by Valrik

    Overview

     The Paladin is without a doubt one of the most popular classes, and in my opinion, one of the hardest to play. A good paladin character can give a story life and depth that otherwise simply could not exist, such as by providing meaningful character conflict or by inspiring his companions to be even more invested in their roles. On the other hand, a poor paladin character can completely derail the setting and generally ruin the RP for those involved. The purpose of this guide is to help you become the former in those two alternatives, whilst refraining from telling you how a paladin is played. Starting us off will be some key points, so if you do not have the time to read this guide, you can at least gather some core ideas.

     

    -There is no such thing as a typical paladin. As of legion, a paladin's way of fighting and life depends heavily on the philosophy he subscribes to.

    -There are 6 major orders (and by extension their philosophies) that almost all paladins encountered have subscribed to: the Silver Hand (pre-legion), the Blood Knights, the Argent Dawn, the Scarlet Crusade, the Hand of Argus, and the Sunwalkers

    -Regardless of the society they come from, paladins have always occupied a role of social prestige. It is very rare for there to be a paladin pariah.

    -As of Legion, almost all paladins have united under one banner in order to vanquish the Legion

    -All Paladins ultimately have their power driven through faith and self-confidence that what they do is right.

     

    While I will refrain from my own conjecture as much as possible; sometimes it might be best I input things that are very likely, if not confirmed (headcanon). These bits will be in red, so that you may ignore them if you disagree. Furthermore, I understand there is a fair bit of controversy to paladins; every individual statement can have a citation upon request. If you want a citation on a statement, I can provide it (or if I do not find it, I'll either change it red or remove it.)

    History

      While I considered putting this section towards the end, it is better that I start us off with this so that you can reference it easily in later sections of the guide. This particular segment isn't required to play a paladin, but it is very helpful especially if you wish to make a guide. The years are color coded to signify which order the date is most relevant to; years in white are relevant to most if not all orders.

    Spoiler

     

    Year ??? - Tyr's mighty deeds are accomplished, along with his ultimate sacrifice in doing battle against the monsters of Shadow. Vrykul Caretakers watch over his final resting place, who could be the very first paladins on Azeroth. Later, humans take up the mantle and become Tyr's Guard; yet, the order remains secretive and reclusive.

     

    Year -25,000 to -200 - The Hand of Argus is presumably founded sometime after the draenei people are exiled from their homeworld. While there is no given year for their foundation, the Hand of Argus is without a doubt the oldest of the orders and first of the paladins in existance. Their leader, Akama, takes place as one of the Exarchs that rule Draenei society. They form the military arm of the Draenei society, and wield potent weapons of the Light. From this point on, I will be assuming the Vindicators and the Hand of Argus to be synonymous, as there is no contrary evidence.

     

    Year -2,800 - Sometime after the defeat of the Trolls in the ancient war of their namesake, the very first priests are formed. They begin having angelic visions, and the faith of the Holy Light spreads like wildfire, becoming very popular quickly. This quickly becomes the foundation for the first Church, lead by Mereldar. It is around this time that the myths of Tyr also begin to take hold in human society.

     

    Year -1,200 - The Arathi Kingdom splits and the particularly pious settle in Lordaeron, forming a capital named after the country. From this point on, the region becomes known as a place with a particular focus on spiritual enlightenment. Around this time, the Dwarves and humans encounter each other and it is assumed that the Dwarves learned of the Light around this time period.

     

    Year -99 - The first violent struggles between Orcs and Draenei begin. The Bladewind clan ransacks and loots Draenei caravans, killing and imprisoning many innocents. In response, Vindicators are sent to guard caravans. They are more often than not successful, and put down many would-be raiders.

     

    Year -75 - The Holy Order of Northshire Clerics is formed from pilgrims arriving from Lordaeron. They prove to be an essential part of Stormwind culture, putting those seeking spiritual relief at ease.

     

    Year -7 - The Orcs form into the Horde, and wage war against the Draenei. While it was a combined effort alongside the Rangari, the Vindicators are instrumental in forming a stubborn defense against the orcs. Yet, as the years went on they would slowly be beaten back by the Horde war machine, which was continuing to grow stronger and stronger with additional numbers, weapons, and Fel.

     

    Year -4 - Karabor falls. Velen and the valiant defenders manage to hold off the conventional assaults well, and push back the attackers. Yet, the Orcs used the Dark Star and sent overwhelming void energy to annihilate the temple's defenses. Many of the Draenei were killed, yet Velen escaped with the survivors who were not taken prisoner.

     

    Year -3 - Following the Horde's final binding to the Legion after drinking Mannoroth's blood, Shattrath is destroyed. The majority of the Draenei's military holds in Shattrath for a heroic final stand whilst the Civilians escape. The Vindicators do not partake in this defense, instead choosing to oversee the evacuation of the civilians and ensure that as many innocents as possible escape. A few escape to Auchindoun, who are lead by Exarch Maladaar. As the Shadow Council attempts to besiege the holy site, they inadvertently summon Murmur and annihilate the land, and defeat the few surviving defenders.

     

    Year -2 - The Draenei way of life they enjoyed is destroyed. The Red Pox claims an unlucky group, including the Vindicators' leader Akama. They devolve into the Broken, and are exiled from Draenei society. Those who avoid the Pox are relegated to living in hidden holdouts, ever fearful that they may one day be discovered; however, the Horde moves on, believing their kind to be exterminated.

     

    Year 0 - The First War begins. The Northshire Clerics do their part in mending fatal wounds even on the battlefield, but ultimately they are ineffective for matters as chaotic as war, especially against the nearly indomitable Horde war machine that made an effort to target the clerics. The order takes heavy losses throughout the war. 

     

    Year 4 - Stormwind City falls in the dramatic conclusion of the First War. The survivors of the Northshire Clerics escape in a mass evacuation from the city as the last of the city's defenders buy time for the refugees to escape. In the battle, several mighty paladin names are brought up for the first time. Lady Mara Fordragon, who would come to have a statue of herself in the Sanctum of Light and Sir Gavinrad the Dire, a Stormwindian Knight, both lead the refugees as they escaped North.

     

    Year 5 - The Knights of the Silver Hand are created. Searching for an icon similar to the clerics, but would be far more useful in the battlefield than them, he met with Alonsus Faol. With Lothar's permission, the Archbishop took Lothar's greatest knights and began instructing them in becoming the first modern paladins in human society. The five founding members were Uther the Lightbringer, Tirion Fordring, Saidan Dathrohan, Turalyon, and Gavinrad the Dire. They would in turn be gifted with five librams that prove to be righteous relics. 

     

    Year 6 - In the battle of Hillsbrad, the paladins make their very first debut. Though it was ultimately the combined efforts of all of the Alliance powers that won the day, the Knights of the Silver Hand proved instrumental in defeating the orcs, both in Hillsbrad and throughout the course of the entire war. As the war continued, the Knights of the Silver Hand grew in number and proved themselves time and time again. They play a vital role in defeating the horde in the Second War As the Alliance liberated Khaz Modan, it can be assumed that Dwarves also begin to join the Knights at around this time. Even some High Elves can be assumed to have joined. It was also during this year that the holy component to the Ashbringer is recovered at the base of Blackrock Spire, then a mysterious dark crystal.

     

    Year 7 - In the aftermath of the Second War, the Paladins change. Instead of their sole focus being to win a war against the orcs, their duties evolve into working closely with the clerics and the Church of the Holy Light in rebuilding their kingdoms.

     

    Year 8 - The Dark Portal reopens. In response, the Alliance sends an expeditionary force to vanquish the orcs once and for all, lead by Turalyon and Alleria. The portal closes behind them and the force, known as the Sons of Lothar, is cut off from Azeroth. It can be assumed that other paladins accompanied Turalyon and were stranded on Outland.

     

    Year 20 - The Third War begins. Uther the Lightbringer, alongside Gavinrad the Dire are killed by Arthas as the order of paladins are decimated. The Kingdom of Lordaeron falls and is overrun by the undead Scourge, who permanently shatter the kingdom's human resistance and leave the Silver Hand scattered. The few paladins to survive rally the survivors and protect them to the best of their ability. In the chaos, the Ashbringer as the iconic weapon it is today is also forged. In the newly rebuilt Stormwind, the paladins are largely unscathed from the chaos of Lordaeron.

     

    Year 21 - Humans who accompanied Jaina Proudmoore to Kalimdor include Knights of the Silver Hand. Through the combined efforts of the Orcs, Humans, and Night Elves, the Third War is ended as the demons are fought back. Many of these knights stay to found Theramore alongside Jaina, and prove to be a vital part in building a new church for the humans residing there.

     

    Year 22 - Arthas ascends to become the Lich King. However, Sylvanas rebels and wrests control from the Lich King. As this happens, the survivors of the Silver Hand and many survivors gather together under the leadership of Alexandros Mograine. However, Saidan Dathrohan is possessed by the dreadlord Balnazzar, who has the mighty Ashbringer assassinated by his own son. In the turmoil, the Silver Hand of Lordaeron is reformed into The Scarlet Crusade, which picks up corrupted and radical methods. Disgusted by what his order has become, Maxwell Tyrosus defects and alongside several others forms The Argent Dawn, which is far more tolerant than any human organization like it before, accepting members from all races into its ranks. Both of these new orders are considered heretics by the Church of the Holy Light for their deviant methods of fighting for justice, although the Argent Dawn is obviously more palpable.

     

    Year 25 - Kel'Thuzad leads the Scourge and returns to Lordaeron in his necropolis, which looms over the Eastern Plaguelands maliciously. In response; the Scarlet Crusade and the Argent Dawn, who have been enemies for the past three years, ally in an uneasy truce against the undead forces. Even with the Scarlet Crusades' armies, and the Argent Dawn's ingenuity, they stand little chance. Ultimately, the Heroes of Azeroth beat the Lich back. It is around this time that the Blood Knights are formed out of former Silvermoon military, who bend the Naaru M'uru's power to their will, rather than serve the Light faithfully. The Silver Hand, now based in Stormwind, is presumably rebuilding from its extreme losses years ago.

     

    Year 26 - While the Argent Dawn does its part to defend the Dark Portal during its initial invasion, ultimately the Blood Knights undergo the most dramatic changes and events this year. Lady Liadrin renounces Kael'thas's Sunfury and submits her Blood Knights to the Sha'tar on Outland, turning them back to the path of reverence. After the Sunwell is reclaimed and finally purified, many Blood Knights begin to act the part of the paladins they were in the Third War. The Exodar, lead by Velen, crash lands in Azuremyst Isle. The Hand of Argus spearheads draenic settlement and acts as the foremost guardians of the new Draenei civilization. The Blood Knights join the Horde, and the Hand of Argus joins the Alliance.

     

    Year 27 - The Lich King returns, and Tirion Fordring emerges from exile. Defending Light's Hope Chapel from the Lich King, he unifies the Argent Dawn and the Silver Hand into the mighty Argent Crusade. With the two orders, he leads the armies of the Light into Northrend and destroys the Lich King with the Ashbringer in his control. The Scarlet Crusade also launched an offensive into the North, dubbed the Scarlet Onslaught; this offensive ultimately failed and was destroyed. The Hand of Argus also deploys vindicators. The Blood Knights also make an appearance in the form of the Sunreavers. It can be assumed that a small amount of paladins resisted the call to a union, and retained their sovereignty as Silver Hand knights.

     

    Year 28 - The Sunwalkers are formed, the last of the paladin orders to form. Unlike the other paladin orders, they draw their power from the Sun, An'she. This brings into question whether they are truly paladins, but it is without a doubt that they are unlike any paladins seen before. The Argent Crusade, alongside the Cenarion Circle, set to work in rebuilding Lordaeron. Dissent brews for the first time in the Scarlet Crusade and results in open rebellion, lead by Joseph who wishes to redeem his order. However, his forces are beaten back and order is maintained by Whitemane. 

     

    Year 30 - The Scarlet Crusade still holds out in Tirisfal Glades. However, with the help of Lilian Voss, adventurers assassinate High Inquisitor Whitemane and prevent her from returning to the mortal world, delivering a crippling blow to the order.

     

    Year 32 - The Legion returns to Azeroth. In response, an assault on the Broken Shore is launched. Not only are the Horde and Alliance armies crippled , but the Argent Crusade sustains heavy losses, even losing Tirion Fordring. The Highlord takes the Ashbringer, and manages to unite the many paladin schools of thought for the first time in history barring the Scarlet Crusade. Even the last remaining member of Tyr's Guard joins this reformed army, named the Silver Hand. The Scarlet Crusade is assumed to finally be vanquished as the Ebon Blade destroys one of their last fortresses to claim Whitemane's corpse.

     

     

     

     

    What is a Paladin?

      For such an iconic class, there is quite a lot of debate as to what paladins actually are. Some will tell you they are just priests with swords, others will tell you that they are actual conduits to the light. Answering this question isn't so simple because paladins, as said before, are different between all their orders. To ensure that you have an answer regardless of who you play, I will be explaining what paladins are to each society.

     

    Silver Hand, Argent Dawn, and Scarlet Crusade

    The Paladin in human and dwarf cultures plays the role of the virtuous hero. During the Second and Third War, they were competent commanders on the field of battle, capable of advanced military maneuvers. They were also fighters without equal in the field of battle. Above all, they were icons; they embodied the three virtues in a way that any man or dwarf could rally behind, regardless of nationality or social status. Being unique creations, they blended the Light and the way with the hammer and shield in a way that had never been seen before in human culture. While the concept of a priest that can fight is nothing new, the Paladins have completely transformed the idea of bringing the Light to warfare. Though now their prestige and power has greatly diminished, they are still seen as paragons and champions to many humans, dwarves, and elves. In short, they are a unique breed of champion that is both respected and feared, and were once nigh unstoppable. Truly, they could be a hero class in their own right.

     

    The Hand of Argus

    The Vindicators and the Hand of Argus are similar to human paladins in that they occupy the role of an elite group of defenders of Draenei society. They synergize the Light and martial skill, but heavily focus on the latter in their combat. Regardless, they are the skilled elite of the Draenei and are their race's equivalent of the mighty Knights that occupy human society. The individual vindicator may not be as prestigious in draenic society as a Silver Hand Knight would be in human society. They formed a distinct military-only aspect of society, in stark contrast to the priests of Draenei civilization.

     

    The Blood Knights

    The Blood Knights acted as the backbone of Silvermoon's military. Whilst many elves are elite in combat by default, and without a doubt the majority of Blood Knights were former elven soldiers and even paladins, their role is far less elite and specialized. While Quel'thalas has guards and common soldiery to rely upon for day to day affairs, ultimately military incursions were lead and dominated by the Blood Knights. In their formation, they were little more than a military formation, being a widely secular group. To the Blood Knights, the light was little more than a tool. After the Burning Crusade however, they occupy a much more reverent role and take their faith to the Light far more seriously.

     

    The Sunwalkers

    Unlike the previously mentioned orders, the Sunwalkers do not occupy a particularly elite role in Tauren society. Instead, they serve as a counter to the Night Elven teachings, and worship An’she rather than Elune. If anything, the Sunwalkers can be compared to as Druids, who call upon the powers of the sun (which may actually be the Holy Light). As such, their prestige is society is little different than that of a druid.

     

    What can a Paladin do in combat?

    Perhaps one of the most chaotic ideas regarding the paladin is what they can actually do. Some play their paladins as simple warriors almost entirely devoid of power from the Holy Light. On the other hand on the spectrum, paladins have been played as almost completely spellcasters, draped in cloth. Unlike a paladin's demeanor or way of life however, it is fairly standardized as to what a paladin is capable of in the field of battle. While it is possible for a priest to fight (hence terms such as Battle priests), paladins are special in that they uniquely combine combat and the Light together.

     

    A paladin is a frontline fighter. Whether you're in a massive battle or in a light skirmish, you can expect a paladin to more often than not attempt to engage in immediate close quarters with the enemy. They more often than not rely on their martial prowess and physical gear to win them the day, to avoid wasting unnecessary energy by calling upon the Holy Light. For many paladins, this is more often than not all that is required. Some paladins have grown so good with their martial prowess that they seldom rely on the Light for typical combat, such as Tirion Fordring. However, when the time comes that they are needed to call upon the holy light, they are able to cast the Light quickly and efficiently, such as the chaotic battlefield commands it. Whilst the powers of each paladin vary between the individual and his order (A Knight of the Silver Hand is more often than not capable of doing more than a Scarlet Crusader), few can deny that they are just as deadly with their righteous power as they are with their martial prowess.

     

    The Philosophy of Paladins

    Perhaps the most important of all the sections (and one of the hardest to tackle). Paladins act very different depending on the order they were raised in, their race, and the order they consider themselves a part of. They are all very different, with different ways of thinking and different tenants that are valued. Some are even at exact odds with one another, such as the Scarlet Crusade and Argent Dawn, and the Silver Hand and Blood Knights before the Burning Crusade. Despite all these differences, there are a few things that can be said for all paladins.

    Paladins are the most ideological of almost any class. Regardless of order, it can be said that they adhere to the ways of thinking they subscribe to the most zealously. Be it adhering to the three virtues in order to be an absolute icon to fanatically purging those with the plague of undeath, the paladins can be expected to follow their ways more so than many others in the world of Azeroth.

     

    The Silver Hand

    The Silver Hand, until recently, has been a strictly alliance-aligned order of paladins. They represented the traditional faith of the Church of the Holy Light. Being the first of the paladins, they primarily adhere to the basic three virtues: Respect, Tenacity, and Compassion. However, while they are respectful, it is not always kindness. The knights are not ones to allow themselves to be pushed aside easily, especially when innocents are involved. To them, respect can be as simple as acknowledging a man's sovereignty as his own person. Likewise, tenacity may not always be a stubborn persistence, but instead a lack of refusal to admit defeat. Regardless in how the individual knight interprets his virtues, he sticks by them in a way that can make him an inspirational icon to those around him. He is more often than not working as a paragon of justice, going through proper channels to make sure the law is upheld. Having roots back to the Alliance nobility, they may even carry a deserved air of superiority around them, though many more are likely to be very humble. Paladins of the Silver Hand worship the Light itself as a divine force. As of Legion, their beliefs and virtues have changed to be almost identical to that of the Argent Dawn, mentioned below.

     

    The Argent Dawn

    The Argent Dawn (and by extension the Argent Crusade) is very similar to the Silver Hand. However, one could say that they are more tolerant, even more "relaxed" than the order they came from. While the Silver Hand was a stalwart Alliance order all the way until Legion, the Argent Dawn have realized that ultimately all living and innocent peoples are one in the face of evil. What they do is often for the good of the people of Azeroth as a whole. It should not be thought that an Argent Dawn paladin cannot get "tough" like a Silver Hand knight can. Indeed, they are just as likely to find a rational compromise as they are to refuse to move a single inch when the innocent are on the line. An Argent Dawn paladin can be depended on to do the right thing no matter the cost, even if it involves breaking a couple laws.

     

    The Scarlet Crusade

    On the other side of the spectrum from the Argent Dawn is the Scarlet Crusade. Formed out of corruption from Balnazzar, as well as the fear and despair that gripped the overwhelming majority of paladins that survived the Third War, the Scarlet Crusade is fanatical and zealous. Whilst they still have the three virtues, it is unknown to what extent these are followed. Ultimately however, one can suspect that whatever the Scarlet Crusade does, it is rationalized by proclaiming it is for the greater good of Lordaeron. In terms of roleplaying a Scarlet Crusader, a crusader could be expected to be unhesitating, regardless of the situation. If something needs to be done for the good of humanity and the Light, there should be no question to this hypothetical knight. It should be noted that as time has gone on, even raw zealotry and madness has not allowed the majority of the crusade to keep the powers of the Light; many of them have lost the capability to command such power.

     

    The Hand of Argus

    The Hand of Argus, whilst certainly a paladin order, holds several virtues different to the human orders: Obedience, Bravery, Intelligence, and Honor. To the Vindicators, it could be described that thought and emotion are one. They can be relied upon to act quickly and with retribution. They act as the hand of the Naaru, and as such do whatever is necessary to vanquish true evil such as the Burning Legion, and the Void, wherever it arrives. However, while a human crusader acts with insanity and zeal, there is wisdom and justice to the Draenei's way of thought. Ultimately, many of them act like the personification of justice for the many wrongdoings against their people.

     

    The Blood Knights

    The Blood Knights, out of all the singular orders, have undergone one of the most dramatic transformations. In their formation, their ways were particularly irreverent in contrast to other orders. They were known to be callous if not even vengeful towards the Light, which had abandoned them during the calamity of the Third War. Binding the Light to their will, they followed no virtues or moral code, which made them an outlier in the ways of the paladins. Where for other orders there was the warmth of the Light, there was only a cold rejection for them, and it could be said that their personality reflected this. After the Burning Crusade, the Blood Knights had once again re-established a healthy relationship with the light thanks to the Sunwell; Liadrin, with A'dal's teachings, began to transform the Blood Knights. In turn, their philosophy has changed in that resembling the Hand of Argus, as the two worked side by side in the Shattered Sun Offensive. However, it can be said that there are exceptions- given their situation in Quel'thalas society, they could be assumed to have a heavy leaning towards the government that lords them, rather than their faith.

     

    The Sunwalkers

    Little is known about the actual philosophy of the Sunwalkers. However, it can be gathered that their way of thinking is very similar to that of the druids. They are believers in the balance of nature. However, while the druids more often than not revere the sun and moon equally as playing a heavy part in society alongside the balance of nature, the Sunwalkers place an almost complete emphasis on the sun as their guiding force, in tune with the idea of balance.

     

    End Note

    While I have tried my best to give a general overview of the histories, philosophies, and fighting styles of the many paladins and their walks of life, ultimately they, like all classes, are so diverse that it is impossible to categorize and talk about them all. While these 6 orders make up the majority of the class's composition, they are not the only way. Do you want to make your paladin follow your own order with its own virtues? Nothing's stopping you! Truthfully, this guide is hardly mandatory.

    In other news, this is my first formal guide ever, so any worthwhile feedback is appreciated. The majority of this lore is gathered from gamepedia and both volumes of Chronicles.

  8. Posted

    47 minutes ago, ArvickCorpsebane said:

    WoW is more cartoony than any 40K games out there. Even the black sheep like DoW3 and Eternal Crusade. Fair. But I still fail to see how any of that restricts you from portraying the grimdark feel. Taking a casual stroll through Duskwood should be enough to enforce that idea. It's all about how you build it. I have done some test building on RPH in the past and rest assured, the results were satisfying enough. You just really gotta focus on the darker aspects of WoW. Not everything in the game is bouncy and colorful.

    Relegating the RP to a few dark zones doesn't sound particularly fun at all. If you want to bring warhammer here, I really think it'd be better off with WHFB- considering that it isn't nearly as grimdark.

  9. Posted

    Just now, ArvickCorpsebane said:

    From a visual one? Yeah... no. I dunno how much attention you've been playing to recent WoW assets (especially tier sets ever since burning crusade) but WoW is very much visually inspired by Warhammer. Big, bulky shoulderpads. Blend of Sci-fi and Fantasy (now more than ever) Not to mention, the in-game Orc models are more similar to Orkz than they are to actual Orcs from Warcraft. Besides all of this, you can always sprinkle in a bit of imagination and some creative ideas.

    Blizzard has a very unique and cartoony artstyle which is seen across all of its games. Warhammer tried to emulate this with its latest release, DoW3

     

    Needless to say, people consider one of DoW3's critical issues as its blizzard-like artstyle. Maybe there is inspiration, but ultimately Warhammer is a very gritty setting. Even the comedic shoulderpads are portrayed in a very grungy and realistic light.

  22. Posted

    How does this rendition of the Deathwatch interact with those outside of the guild, and in public settings? The primary concerns from RPH lay exactly with that subject, given one of the largest complaints was your guild being populated by gankers.

  23. Posted

    8 hours ago, Elory said:

    I currently don't have one... I am mostly waiting for more members to join so I know any plans I have are able to be executed with enough numbers because currently I barely have enough members to make a mini event.

    Having a clear roadmap can actually make or break a successful guild forum topic. People like to know what they'll be doing within your guild. You may not have enough members, but you should label out your plans as to what adventure you'll be taking on with the guild once you do, rather than just putting "kick some demon butt". There have been plenty of times where two guilds with similar concepts post at the same time, but the one with vague IC goals gets left in the dust, whereas the one with a clear process gets a bunch of members.

  25. Posted

    Now that situation is out of the way, does your guild have any specific goals at all? What can we actually expect the Silver Hand to be doing as a guild? Yours are quite vague, and some of them can be applicable to literally any guild that wanted to have them.

     

    What's your guild's IC roadmap, simply put.

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