Akhorahil
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Posts posted by Akhorahil
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10 hours ago, Vojtik said:OK. Firstly let's establish the difference between characters one should RP and player characters in Legion. One should not RP these powerful characters for quite obvious reasons I hope I don't need to state.
I don't see why you felt the need to say this, or continue with...talking down to me as though I didn't understand anything? I brought up the Legion Hero characters simply to establish how Blizzard themselves solved this problem in their story. I even said it takes away from the character should you attempt to continually power them up to keep even with stronger classes? For now, I'll ignore the tone of your post, however, since you did make a point I liked.
10 hours ago, Vojtik said:Another important factor to talk about is scaling of base power with experience, which is (unsurprisingly) different for every class (f.e. warrior has quite straight curve almost linear, while mage has slow climb from the start, with steep spike towards the end) -> novice warrior will beat novice mage, while a master mage will beat master warrior (talking just base power).
This! It's good stuff. I had focused entirely on the hypothetical masters of their class that I hadn't considered how power scales with experience, or how much work you actually need to put in to achieve the imbalanced power of the more fantastical classes. If we were to forsake my clinical approach and simply take two novices that had been training for an equal amount of time, I completely agree that the outcome is much much less set in stone, and perhaps even in favor of the martial class.
To address a final point of yours without making this post a quotefest, however...of course wit and wile can achieve victory over sheer power. In fact, that's what I was hoping to hear about when I asked for people to share their experiences, and asking them how they cope with being a more grounded role that comes face to face with some stronger, more magically inclined class.
However, the point of my initial post was to establish what is, in my opinion, an indisputable fact; from an even standpoint, that being two characters that are completely equal to one another save for their class, the more grounded "mundane" classes cannot compete. Then, I asked for stories of people overcoming that power discrepancy, or even fleeing in the face of it...or dying to it! Then, I asked those that choose to RP powerful characters why and how they do it. In no way was I implying people should or shouldn't roleplay one or the other, nor was I discounting the individual nature of a roleplayer/character, and their ability to come out ahead against improbable odds.
You seem like a knowledgeable person, Vojtik, but I think you misinterpreted my words in a way that left you looking rather disrespectful.
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1 hour ago, Mithaniel said:Personally, I follow headcanon for warriors that warriors make up for the huge power discrepency with a supernatural "force" (AKA Rage) which allows them to do amazing feats. I also dabble in the idea that magic casters really only have the limit of their body / mind / spirit - whichever is applicable. I believe that is the best way to take it. For example, feats for novice mages becomes repeatable with little taxation to the master mage - and repeat for other spellcasters.
I like the idea that Rage could be something "real" that comes into effect for warriors past the obvious berserker angle. My counter-point was going to be the cherry-picking nature of that compared to a caster using mana, but mana has recently...undergone changes. It's a physical substance ( physical in so much that there's liquid mana, you can sap mana from the air and leylines ) but is also used as a resource for many different classes, while still being explicitly arcane? I find myself agreeing with you on a caster relying mostly on their personal limits.
1 hour ago, Mithaniel said:Also, power is one thing. The knowledge to use it is another. As is the knowledge on fighting enemies who fight differently than you or with more power.
I agree whole-heartedly. My point loses potency on a more individual basis, as I said in my hypothetical. There are, of course, a huge variety of things you can pull if you're clever. As I said I'd love seeing some examples of that out of people.
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I imagine most of you know what exactly I’m referring to when I use a term like “power discrepancy” in the context of Warcraft. Even if you’re not exactly a roleplayer, so long as you’ve played World of Warcraft and favor yourself a bit of a critical thinker, you may have had your own views on this matter.
To put it to words: I’m speaking of the discrepancy between player classes. By now, in Legion, every player character is a paragon of their class that has proven themselves capable of mastering their respective skillset. Even down to every specialization. However, there’s an inherent gap between these classes from an in-character point of view. If you feel you don't need to spend time reading about my particular thoughts on the matter, and how I feel it's addressed in WoW proper, feel free to skip the long-winded explanation and hypothetical contained in this here spoiler box.
SpoilerLet’s use a warrior as our starting point. In fact, let’s use a master warrior as our starting point. Veteran of several large battles with a good head on their shoulders! They know how to use a weapon and they know the importance of when and where to do so. Let us further define a warrior as just…a warrior. Sword, board, and moxie.
Then you have shamans; warriors clad in mail armor that command the elements to summon totems, lightning storms, and fiery avatars. Death knights, those plate-wearing undead fiends that command the power of ice, plague, and even the blood in your veins. Mages, in command of forces that make up the fabric of reality! With a waggle of their fingers and a well-spoken incantation, you could be sent spiraling through space to end up falling from fifty feet above where you just stood – and that’s just a party trick compared to what they can really do.
Not to mention the perfidious warlocks, fel-infused demon hunters, and the nature-commanding druids. The last of whom can transform into feral beasts.
Now, of course, this master warrior could outsmart and beat a novice of anything, really. Experience counts! Buuuuut in the interest of making our playing field level…a master warrior against a similarly experienced representative from any of these classes? By trying to make it fair, you make it unfair. By trying to make it more favorable for the warrior, you end up stacking the deck more and more against the opposing class simply because a normal person needs such a handicap.
Blizzard cures this handicap by making the player representative of their class be incredibly important. You lead your class as the best there is, commanding living legends and wielding artifacts of incredible, sometimes eldritch, powers – elevating them beyond mundane mortality. Be it an ancient sword besmirched by the inky blood of a faceless general, daggers painstakingly created from the fangs of Sargeras’ pet felhound, or even Mimiron’s modern marvel of a rifle; a gun which draws on the very essence of fierce thunderstorms…the more average classes get a leg up in official lore, in the interest of making them equally as heroic and effective against the raging demonic horde that is the Burning Legion.
TL;DR – our proud warrior armed with just their sword, shield, and go get ’em attitude cannot contend with a similarly experienced member of an inherently stronger class without a long list of “what ifs” and “but if I have this...” logic.
In roleplay, this power discrepancy attracts people to play these powerful classes. Sometimes well, more times not so well. People who enjoy something less fantastic may fall to the side of a simple fighter or marksman, and suddenly find themselves at an inherent disadvantage if they ever find themselves in combat against one of these beefier classes ( which, as everyone knows, can happen at the drop of a hat considering how some people behave ).
So, at the end of this long-winded post about something many of you may have already thought about and know full well exists, I’d like to ask how you manage with this? In the past, I would create some backdoor OP feature in a more mundane character. “This way I can deal with jerks that try to start something with me,” I’d tell myself. Nowadays I feel that detracts from the character far too much to justify writing it in.
On the other side: my eponymous death knight, Akhorahil, stays out of trouble. There’s no reason for an old undead elf to loiter around more normal people. If you’ve seen him in a phase, it was likely because he was requested there for good reason.
So, Epsilon! How exactly do you cope? Are you a more grounded roleplayer that focuses less on the high-fantasy aspect of Warcraft, and if so – what happens when you’re face to face with that fantastical element?
For you powerful boys and girls; what drew you to that? Do you simply have it as an ace up your sleeve, leaving you to partake in more frivolous activities with no fears of interruption? Or do you go whole-hog and embrace the lifestyle of the powerful, and the responsibility that comes with it?
Please, feel free to share some experiences!
please don't let this post turn into a lonely shout into the void oh goodness I couldn't handle the sheer nothingness
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While trying to be as vague as possible, I think most people here understand your decision.
Welcome to the server. Things are a bit slower here, but make some friends or bring some along and it's all good times.
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I don’t, and haven’t, come around in a long while – but it sucks to hear that Epsilon is a dead server, even if it’s said jokingly. If I bring it up, the conversation generally stops with people complaining along the lines of “nobody is on there, nothing happens.”
So I’d like to bump the thread with what little I can offer as someone who is, in any practical sense, an outsider. I liked the server while I was active and Witch’s post has encouraged me to come back around, at least in some capacity, as I feel like my indifference was a detractor. Hopefully that viewpoint is a valuable one, in case anyone has some gripes about what’s been said in this thread and how it’s presented to any potential returning members.
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40 minutes ago, Highlander said:We got a Death Knight guild, find <Ebon Highguard>, we look for peeps.
Sounds cool, though integrating an old and storied character with running plotlines into a guild is always difficult.
don't give up though, make DKs great again
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I was told I should make one of these. So, hello.
Akhorahil is my only relevant online handle. Some of you might remember me, in which case, hello again. Nice to see you.
Obligatory blurb about self; I like death knights. I roleplay one, sometimes well. Ask me anything about death knights and I'll provide an unsatisfactory answer.
Hope to meet you in-game soon, but probably not as a death knight.
Power Discrepancy!
in Meredil
Posted · Edited by Akhorahil
I think this, alongside a sentiment I had heard in-game, ties into something very crucial for the people that choose to roleplay the best of the best, always winning, never wavering hardasses...
Which is that good roleplay takes effort and time. It's obviously a lot easier to never lose. To, as I said in my original post, simply be OP so you don't have to worry about interruptions in casual RP or what have you. Which speaks of a mindset I was hoping to get a grasp of with this thread, that of the more casual roleplayer, and where they fall on this scale. If they're casual in the sense that they don't choose a strong role to begin with, or choose something static yet strong, or go for the overtly powerful - and why. The type of person not likely to build a character up from the ground.
Not to judge them for their choices, but to just understand what it is they get out of roleplaying the way they do.
Yes, right, the "resource" for a mage being the extent of their spirit or body. People do roleplay having a limit on their character, though it'd be interesting to know exactly what defines their limit. The sheer quantity of spells - and what's the breaking point in strength? What, in the opinion of the archmage player, tires out their archmage? Are blue dragons subject to this limiter? (That I actually know nothing about, dragons seem to fluctuate so wildly in quality that I've never really expended effort to RP with one.)
I do have to say I have never seen anyone embrace real, long-lasting negative effects of being pushed to their limit over and over on a caster. That is definitely something I'd like to see more of.