bogos binted? 15 Posted July 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Firestorm said: New players should not need to experience that from this community. Usually players are just toxic towards eachother and most of the time it's a joke, however, (sometimes it's serious) but regardless it's never a good impression. Yeah, I agree with this. To extrapolate, though, I feel like a lot of the time these "jokes" are inaccessible to newcomers in the sense that people from the outside looking in - such as people who have just created their first character on Epsilon - may not necessarily be able to distinguish jokes between friends from actual animosity. I wouldn't ask a newcomer who isn't comfortable speaking up in a group of complete strangers to seek clarification from people whose intentions are unclear, especially if there are pretty uncomfortable words being exchanged. When I joined, I saw some folks saying some not-so-savory things, and it just seemed like childish memeing to me, even with the context of the discussion removed. I can only imagine how it comes across to others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogos binted? 15 Posted July 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, Gork W. Bush said: You are a blessing, welcome to Epsilon my friend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zach 14 Posted July 29, 2018 after reading a ton of the replies, I have to say I've been persuaded onto the pro-start zone side, but that isn't to say the problems aren't valid. the people who log on epsilon not to rp but to sit in mall would just end up not logging on, and the people who actually want to rp will continue to log on losing the starting zone will pretty much only just drop the average active player count without benefiting or worsening the actual rp going on at all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gork W. Bush 36 Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, zach said: after reading a ton of the replies, I have to say I've been persuaded onto the pro-start zone side, but that isn't to say the problems aren't valid. the people who log on epsilon not to rp but to sit in mall would just end up not logging on, and the people who actually want to rp will continue to log on losing the starting zone will pretty much only just drop the average active player count without benefiting or worsening the actual rp going on at all Personally I'd have to disagree, much of the trolling and toxic behavior that happens occurs in start and while there are people that log on Epsilon to "chill", we need to remember that it is an RP server. Not saying you can't come here to chill, but It is an RP server after all. I believe that the people who RP are who we should worry about the most, a lot of work has gone into improving the roleplay experience provided by Epsilon and we should do our best to make sure RP continues to happen and people use the things given to them. I mean if you look at what the new player said above, I think it's obvious that a lot of people have experienced a lot of negative things in start, while it can hold positive things, I believe for the sake of the community it'd be either better to take action against the toxic individuals, or simply just get rid of the starting zone so they can't bother new players or push them away from Epsilon. Edited July 29, 2018 by Gork W. Bush Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gardener 126 Posted July 29, 2018 Adding on to what Gork said: Epsilon is a playground for all to enjoy, while most players are here to roleplay, some aren't. From my experience idling in start, witnessing some pretty horrible abuse hurled to other players after coming back from another tab is pretty disheartening. The bully NPC was a good reminder that Epsilon is a bully free zone. While it's a tough hurdle to hop over, moderation certainly can't be done 24/7 so it's fairly safe to say that we won't ever be able to have a start zone that new players don't occasionally see that type of shit. As for there being roleplay phases and people still sitting in start? lol, that's been going on since the beginning of time. Just give people time to adjust on Epsilon and things will slot into place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Visaerys 22 Posted July 29, 2018 Removing start would make sure that 20% would not log on until they have agreed to rp with someone over discord. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Romeo 320 Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Visaerys said: Removing start would make sure that 20% would not log on until they have agreed to rp with someone over discord. Plus the fact that plenty of people sometimes just login to experience the community and chill, not to roleplay. Don't see anything wrong with startzone/mall being as it is, think it is beautiful. Good thread doe! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheDemon 109 Posted July 29, 2018 Start is a good place for new people to get to know the community, ask questions and get some info/help. Also, a good place to chill when my character is way too specific to fit into currently hosting phase. Also, a nice place to 'just chill' when I don't have the mood for RP. Also, a place to buy a good proletarian bread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vath 3 Posted July 29, 2018 Going to make a forum post for once. I do text walls. I side with the people saying that instead of having 20% of the playerbase on doing nothing, you'll just not have 20% of the playerbase on. Not all RP available is something that is what a player is looking for. For those players, start is a place to sit while you wait for either a friend to get on and RP or for an RP to become available. That's certainly the case with me on Amadeus. The character's got rags and a couple spells, so pretty much every single guild is already out of the question since, as of the time of this post, they're all way over his head and tossing him in would be nigh suicidal. He also cannot teleport and is not some world wanderer who bypasses the threats one might encounter in the world with ease. He's in trouble if so much as a wolf decides he looks like a tasty meal. Right now my options for him are to make my own RP - which I won't do unless I have at least some people on that I get along with who can join in, since I'm obviously not going to sit there and just RP with myself, or to skip this part of his progression and just make him competent, which, while valid, leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Simply put, not all characters can be shoehorned into RPs, and not all players are eager to abandon those characters for ones who do. While I understand not all characters are like mine, that doesn't mean that the RP presented may be optimal for them, and until that point they should have a place to wait to see if there is one. Otherwise, they'll probably just never get on since the only way they become aware of any RP is through Discord. Not to mention, some players or characters are simply not meant for public RP and are meant for adventure RPs hosted privately between them and their friends. If they're in start, they're likely just in the time between and just enjoy talking to other people. It doesn't mean they aren't RPing, it means they're not in YOUR RP. The last thing I'd like to mention is that if start were removed, it's very possible that people will simply make their own. That was the deal with Echeloned. That server also did not have a start zone. Instead, players generally came together around Sunstrider Isle. While I'm not sure that the current climate of RPers would lead to that, it's definitely possible. If they want to be in those RPs, they'll join the phase. If they have no interest, deleting the start area won't make them magically filter in to those phases, it'll make them magically filter out of the server. What else is there to do until something they're interested pops up? How will they find people they want to RP with? Best I can tell, without a start area they simply won't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Azarchius 212 Posted July 29, 2018 Epilogue/Prologue/Legacy had a similar system: There was a start zone for gearing and prepping. Then, you teleport to a location, and you can't come back. This idea was solid for a few reasons. One, people didn't actively make start-only characters. Start was pretty, but boring--you'd only find people gearing there and a GM or two running around. Two, GMs in some periods actively prohibited people from sticking around start. If they see the same character sitting around for more than a day, they'll be dealt with. Three, it complemented the "always IC" attitude. OOC comments of any description in Say were extremely frowned upon and people used /General for spontaneous communication. So because these players were so ingrained with the idea of being always IC, sitting on some chair in a tavern while they conversed in OOC was not something awkward for them. And if they really didn't want to RP, /DND was used to indicate OOC. Finally, because it wasn't a GM-commands server, and travel was an important mechanic, the idea of a persistent starting zone was offputting because it could be used to cheat. So, of course there were no complaints. However, like some others have been saying, this had mixed results. While most people seemingly do follow this, and indeed, instead of sticking around the starting zone went they went and AFKed in a popular town, increasing population, and giving them the opportunity to suddenly engage in RP. On the other hand, OOC communication was fairly... limited. While you could do so much in the OOC chat, the only-IC nature of the community, some argued, created a feeling of separation and alienation between players outside of their cliques. You don't *see* someone with cool gear in start, or using a cool spell, or having a cool guild, and then interacting with them. This happens relatively rarely, but still happens every day. All of these things are things you could do IC, of course, but it raises an important question: if its only merit is social interaction for the benefit of roleplay, and that could be achieved IC, is a persistent starting zone necessary? Well, it was, back in the days of item malls. But right now, it has only two purposes. It serves as a way to jar you, to suddenly behold a custom zone, impressing upon you the work that goes into the server, and the potential you yourself could reach. And of course, it serves as a convenient location to prepare your character before you set out on your journey. Frankly, if the community overwhelmingly agrees, I doubt the staff would disagree with eliminating the persistant nature of the starting zone. I can say for certain that no matter what, the starting zone as a location will never be removed--you won't start showing up in Elwynn with your basic gear in main phase. But disabling .worldports to that map, removing .tele start, and not allowing anyone to appear or be summoned into it, is something that we can't quite immediately dismiss. Because people who had no intention of roleplaying will not be touched by this--after all, windowshoppers are just there to look at 735 stuff. If they want to go explore Argus, and then go back to afking in start, they can just create a new character. There is one matter, however--currently, there is a (cultural) "active" state of a phase. A phase that isn't active ('not hosting') theoretically shouldn't have any players in it. This cultural habit can be done away with using commands--by manually closing and opening the phase to non members/officers. And of course, rp list still exists--it shows listed phases that have players in them, and delisting them is a manual command. If the community could get used to the idea of hanging around a phase regardless whether officers are around, this wouldn't be a problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkor 119 Posted July 29, 2018 removing start will make start ooc so theres no change [Gunmar] says: "I can't believe this 'Arahi' woman went down so fast. Storm my arse." Spoiler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites